too much conflicting info!

Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:05 am Post subject: too much conflicting info!

Hi guys, I am researching all I can about bearded dragons prior to my son (who is nearly nine) getting a pair or juveniles, however, having spoken with reptile obsessed friends, pet shops and reading the copious info online, there are strong but conflicting opinions about their welfare which has left me confused. I need to know everything I can before we get them so I can teach my son well and assist when needed. I would be most grateful for help from you. My queries are:

1. What is the most suitable substrate for juveniles? It seems they'll ingest sand, can choke on chippings and lose their food under newspaper.

2. We have an enclosure which has the basking heat source as a red light - ReptaInfraPlus. Is this as suitable for our prospective juveniles as the white basking globes available?

3. There is no overnight heat source in the enclosure, and we live in Melbourne where the nights can be cold. Which would be best, adding a separate night globe or a heat mat?

4. If we buy 2 juvenile dragons at the same time (which I understand we can't sex), can they be housed safely together once grown as long as they are not both males?

5. Once grown a bit if they are male/female, are they likely to breed and, as siblings, will that cause genetic problems with their offspring?

6. Is there anything apart from the obvious to look out for if we try to buy privately? For example, I was offered a pair of Rick Walker red hatchies (not by RW!) but the bank details didn't match the licence details to apply for the import licence. Or am I simply being overly paranoid??!

7. Just thought of this one ... How frequently do you need to change the fluoro tube, every 6 months or every 12?

Thanks guys.

Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:24 am Post subject:

Hi,
Doesn't matter where you go you'll get some conflict with the various ideas we all have, I'll give you a set of answers based on my personal experience as a small time breeder and long time forum moderator.

1/ Up to 4~6 months I have a bare melamine floor - once they feed accurately then I go to a mix of rough sandstone and natural sand. As long as they don't scoop up sand when they grab live prey and your temps are correct so that they digest food rapidly then you won't have an impaction problem. Wood chips and similar however can be swallowed and don't digest!

2/ Your enclosure should be 1200 x 600 x 600 and to be honest the best basking lights are the Phillips RO 60 or RO 80 spotlights from Bunnings or similar stores much cheaper that the specialist lights and do the same job. Personally I've found that given the choice dragons will bask under a bright white light in preference to anything else - even if it gives off little or no heat!

3/ I'm also in Melb and as long as the temp in your house doesn't drop below around 16C overnight then you don't need supplementary heating.

4/ & 5/ Rule of thumb:-

You can't accurately sex babies much under 6 months unless you've been around a while.
Two males will fight at some point and possibly kill one another.
A male and female will breed and you can then have 60 or more babies a season to look after and dispose of. Your female will be pestered all the time by the male and this will shorten her lifespan (plus of course the inbreeding problems that can arise).
Two females may co-exist OK if they can sort out a pecking order, if not then you will end up with dominance problems and one dragon probably starving to death.

6/ Try and buy locally from someone who will show you the parents and the conditions they're raised under. Choose a lively dragon, if possible ask to see them feeding. Ask if they're feeding on veg as well as live food, they can be very hard to get to eat veg if not started young. Buying locally you don't need to worry so much about license matches as you'll see who and where you're getting it from.

7/ Fluoro tubes are really only good for around 6 months.

One last tip, as a beginner you'd be better to get a sub-adult 6~10 months old, there are a lot less hassles in settling one in at that age but in any case don't get one at less than 8 weeks and preferably 12 weeks old.

Rick

5/

Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:14 am Post subject: thanks!

Rick you're a darling, thank you so much for your help. The reptile obsessed friend of which I spoke owns 14 various lizards and at least 12 snakes, so he spoke with authority but insisted bearded dragons need to live in pairs, something I shall definitely not be attempting based on your reply. I'll change the basking lamp (thanks for the Bunnings tip!) and the substrate can also wait, which will make it very easy for cleaning while we're all new to each other. Finding red or ornage phase locally has been impossible which is why we were looking to import interstate but I would of course prefer to buy closer to home if possible, so maybe we'll just wait a while (which will KILL my son!). Thanks again, Dawn

Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:54 am Post subject:

Bunarong Aquarium in Frankston get both in from time to time from SA. It may be worth your while giving them a call if you really want a coloured one. Otherwise check the for sales in the Herp Shop www.herpshop.com.au
This may interest you http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/lizards/457432-myths.html however I wouldn't recommend joining the forum Australian Dragon owners arn't appreciated very much.

Rick

Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:01 pm Post subject:

Thanks Rick, that forum thread was interesting and pretty damn conclusive. I'll contact the Frankston shop you mentioned, we've already been watching the Herp Trader and Sam would like a red or orange phase. No chance of me joining a UK forum, we escaped from there 8 years ago (yay!), although I'm surprised they aren't united as dragon owners globally.

Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:36 am Post subject:

But they are united - they all believe that Australians know nothing about the care and general husbandry of our native reps, plus they of course have a greater depth of knowledge surrounding our own country and the conditions that our fauna have lived in for the past few million years!

As you may guess I'm not mad about a number of overseas forums and members attitudes Very Happy

Rick

Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:22 am Post subject:

The perennial curse of the British - a hugely misguided sense of superiority whilst blissfully overlooking their shortcomings! Now you know why we escaped. Bunarong Aquarium have both orange and red phase juveniles which we are viewing this week so thanks once again for the tip, (and I will make sure I see them feeding).